 |
 |
 |
|
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|
In the mid-seventies, under constant surveillance and with freedom threatened as Kurds in Iran, Abdullah, Berivan and their 25 day-old son immigrated to the United States with two suitcases of clothes. Abdullah, the only one seventy-five immigrants who could speak English, requested to come to North Dakota where the climate was similar to their homeland in Kurdistan. Abdullah and Berivan agree that while they found no mountains in North Dakota, they found hearts bigger than mountains. From day one until no-for over 25 years-they have felt a part of the community in Bismarck/Mandan and are among good friends. Their son Cameron and his wife recently moved to Colorado and their daughter Tara, a North Dakota native, lives in Moorhead. The family visits Fargo often to see Tara and to visit friends in the Kurdish community. Q: Tell me about how you happened to come to this country, where you're from, and how you came here. ABDULLAH: We're from Kurdistan, Iraq, the northern part of Iraq, and Kurdistan of course is a country that is divided among four different countries -- Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and Syria, and we're from the part that belongs to Iraq. Q: And that happened in World War I? ABDULLAH: After World War I, yeah. That was divided at that time. You know the Kurds are the largest of the group in the world without a country. We're about over 25 million people and no country. And after that we were supposed to have a country too but then it didn't happen. Q: And what happened in Iraq that... first of all tell me about what life was like in Iraq as a Kurd? ABDULLAH: Well life was... I mean it was okay before the Kurds. I mean the Iraqi Kurds were the only Kurds probably were able to speak their own language. I'm mean in Turkey they were forbidden till after Gulf war they allow them to speak Kurdish at their homes or I mean outside their homes. But in Iraq we were able to speak Kurdish at home all the time. The only thing wasn't allowed at that time you know having publications in Kurdish. That was kind of forbidden. But again we still have some, and Kurds I think probably only group in the world that still can speak their own language and read and write their own language although we were forbidden from doing that especially reading and writing. We... I myself I, we all do you know. Probably mine is not as good as Arabic but still read and write you know, and I can give you an example -- after they got their independence from France in '62. They couldn't speak Arabic so they had to bring teachers from the Arab countries to teach them how to speak their own language. And it was only for 100 years you know they were under the control of the French. But the Kurds still do that. Doesn't matter where they live, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, whatever. Q: Yeah. So how did you happen to come here? What happened? ABDULLAH: Well we were part of the Kurdish distribution. I joined the Kurdish distribution March 11 of 1974 when the fighting between the Iraqi government and the Kurds started after four years of peace treaty. That last four years so, and then after that our Kurdish distribution was stopped for some political reasons so what happened to us we end up in Iran, across the border so we were in Iran for about two years. And we didn't like it there because we considered ourselves as freedom fighters, and we were in a country that there was no freedom there. Especially for us there was no freedom at all. I'm mean you couldn't talk about politics. You couldn't... you couldn't do much really. I mean we were watched all the time you know. And now I will give you an example. After they moved us from the Kurdish area in Iran to other parts of Iran, they thought probably we were bad influence of the Iraqi Iranian Kurds so we had to, they had to take us to different parts of Iran. And at that time I... we were just two of us there you know in a small town. And BERIVAN was pregnant at that time, and I had to get the permission from the secret police which was very powerful force in that country. They gave me the permission to take my wife to her parents who lived in Tehran at the time till after my son was born. But then they found out that I did that so they called me to the police station one day, and they said well you know you have to go bring your wife back right away so how can I do that, she just had a baby. They said we have, that's your problem. You have to do it. But anyway they gave me a letter. They said well take it to an office which is a few miles away from the police station. And I went over there and tried to find somebody to listen to me or take that letter from me you know and nobody did. Finally somebody saw me there for awhile. They said you know what do you need? I said well I have this letter. He said what's that? Well I give it to him. He read it. He said do you know... do you know what this letter says? I said no. He said it says we have to put you in jail. I said why? He said because you when to Tehran. Isn't Tehran part of Iran? That's what he was asking me. I said well ask the guy who wrote the letter. So that's,... but by then I didn't know whether my son was war or not so I used to get on the bus about for 10 hours you know on the bus... BERIVAN: Thursday. ABDULLAH: Thursday evening, on the bus all night long, get there Friday. And I went there, here my son was born a few days ago, and I didn't know anything about it. So I get on the bus again at night, Friday night, so I can make it back to where I was in Iran in the morning of Saturday morning so they don't know that. So that's how it happened then. Finally one day I went there, and they said well you get ready, you're leaving to United States...cause I, they c alled my name without me knowing. Of course I was glad that time because we had no choice. I'm mean we had to get out of that country. Q: So they made the decision for you that you were coming? ABDULLAH: Well our friends did. Our friends... BERIVAN: And my father also. ABDULLAH: We had some friends did that for us. But you know after that, well I did I got on the bus again. I took BERIVAN's brother with me, and we went there and put some clothes in two suitcases, and we came back and left everything behind there. Q: So you came here with nothing? ABDULLAH: Nothing yeah. BERIVAN: Two suitcases. Q: Two suitcases and a baby boy. BERIVAN: A baby boy. ABDULLAH: Carrying him in a basket. Q: Is that right? BERIVAN: Uh huh. ABDULLAH: Yeah he was 25 days old when we left. And of course even leaving Iran at that time wasn't that easy either. You know we had problem leaving there because we were about 28 people, came from all over Iran without telling anybody that they are going to Tehran to leave. So all of a sudden they had some plane tickets from Iranian airline for us. When the time came, we had only three days to leave Iran. After that we couldn't leave. So they said there are no tickets for you, no room for you we were kind of in trouble. What are we going to do? Go back to where we came from and get in bigger trouble now. But then the U.S. Embassy there in Tehran and then United Nations Embassy tried their best. They found... they sent us a plane from Germany, and we're supposed to leave Tehran about 2, about noon, and then we didn't get, they didn't let us even inside the airport till about 11:00. You know by then we left... we ended up in Germany in the morning so, and we didn't know how. They were telling us when after we got there, the admission that they wouldn't allow us, allow the plane to go over... they couldn't go over Iraq because they might bring the plane down. Turkey wouldn't allow the plane go over there because the Kurds were on that plane. So I don't know how, but we end up in Germany, in Frankfurt, so we know it was the end of it. Q: Now tell me about when you decided to come to North Dakota? ABDULLAH: Well, after we came to Germany, we were there for about a week. BERIVAN: Ten days. ABDULLAH: Ten days or a week or ten days. They did all the paperwork there, and I was the only one who could speak English so I had to translate for everybody. BERIVAN: Seventy-five people. ABDULLAH: And then after that... of course they had another group before was there too. They had a building that belonged to the American Embassy there. They had a group before us, and then it was us so we were about 70 some people there. So I had to translate for all of them, do all the paperwork you know. We got there about 3:00 in the morning. Seven o'clock they woke us up. They said get ready, you're going to Frankfurt. We were kind of outside Frankfurt so we were there till, all day that day. That was in June of '76. It was hot day, and so we were there for about... BERIVAN: Five, five in the evening. ABDULLAH: Yeah. I mean it was a week or ten days, something like that. BERIVAN: We were there for 10 days. ABDULLAH: And then after that they send us to New York, and from New York they decided to send us all over, I been to Texas, I refused California, I refused all these other places. I said I want to go to North Dakota. They say well you know we can't find any sponsors for you in North Dakota because they just had a large group of Kurds there before you. So I said well, I said no. I just want North Dakota. And finally... we were tired. We were there are about a month you know living in a hotel and all that. And finally they said well, well they said you know how about Colorado you know? I said fine. If there is nothing in North Dakota, we're ready to go to Colorado. So we came... next day we went over to the office again, and they said well get ready, you're going to Bismarck, North Dakota. And the reason was because I chose North Dakota because we live in a climate kind of similar to North Dakota. We get a lot of snow. We live in the mountains, and people in that region think the Kurds are very tough because they live in this kind of climate. And we thought well you know having a lot of snow in North Dakota, being that cold, has to be a lot of mountains. So that was the reason we came here, and then well we came and we look around. There are no mountains. But I have said many times, and I say it again that we couldn't find mountains in North Dakota, but we found hearts bigger than the mountains, and I mean that. BERIVAN: That's true. Q: What about your experience here? You said you have hearts bigger than mountains. It's been a good one? ABDULLAH: Very good one. I mean we feel we're among family and friends. I'm mean we're part of the community from day one till now. And we had good friends, and we still do. The people we associate with the first time we came to North Dakota, they are our friends or family and everything. We still associate with each other and do things together, and they are family. We are all family. Q: How about you BERIVAN? How do you feel about your life here? BERIVAN: You know when I first came, my husband, my son 25 days old. My brother was 16 years old. Excuse me. My sister and her husband they were newlyweds. Before we left my father said you have all these people under your wings. You will be the mother, the sister, the father, the aunt, everybody. You are there for every one of them. And I was only 20 years old when I came. And I thought okay, Dad gave me this responsibility. I better... you know you have to obey what they tell you. So we came here, and we were the luckiest people to have... I can mention their name, Kenny and Donna Rothler. You know they opened their home and their heart to us. We were with them for about a week. And they found an apartment for us. And they helped us in every way you can imagine. Not just them really, I you know I mention them because we were with them the whole time. We had four other families that helped, that came almost every day. They talked to us you know. Abdullah would be gone in the daytime. I have no idea how to speak English except for the necessity words, and if the question would have been day yes answer, I would have said no. And even now we sit and talk about it, and they just laugh. It's like how did you even manage? And I thought well you know you grow up learning things, and when I came here, I thought okay I'm an infant too you know. I'm learning as I go by day by day but. And I love them to pieces. I really do. They are such neat people. We have made... I think half of Mandan and Bismarck most of them, they know who we are. I've made so many friends. One year for the Fourth of July parade... we belong to the international club. One year, the first year we were in every two step I took, it was everybody Hi BERIVAN. Abdullah said you know I think we need to leave from this town so you can make new friends somewhere else. (laughter) But the experience here it's been wonderful. I love being here. I'm so glad my kids have been raised in this country, in this state, in this town especially. They all know who Cameron and Tara are. It's not just because they are from a different country because they are. Tara was born here you know, but Cameron was born in Iran. They have so many friends, and I have had all of their friends come over and stay over. They come over, Mrs. Ali, do you have rice? I don't know what it is about my rice, but everybody likes it. I don't know. They go to the fridge. They open the fridge. They help themselves. They eat. They stay over. I was like a second mom to them. If they need a haircut, they come and ask me. Honey go ask your mom. But you can tell us. I've helped a lot of their friends. I've been around for them. And our faith you know, we're Moslem. I do fast. You know well we both do. Abdullah couldn't do it in the past because of his heart condition; well now he can. He can do that for 30 days from sunup to sundown. No food, no drink in the mouth from sunup until sundown. Then we do our prayers five times a day. I read the Koran, and I have two of them in the house -- one of them is English Arabic which both of the kids have read that. In fact I just last weekend, or the weekend before, my daughter came home, and I saw her take the book with her. She didn't even ask me. She just grabbed it and took it, and now she has it. She's going to read it again which is... you always teach your kids who you are. You preach to them. Let them know how much you love them and what their faith is all about. And you know no matter where you go, your faith will be with you, no matter where you are. Q: And how do you keep you faith alive and your culture alive here in this country? BERIVAN: Ah, really you just. It's so hard for me to sit down and talk to other friends about my religion because some of them do not understand what Islam is all about. Seriously they don't know. But we try to tell them what it is about you know. There are so many questions that I can't even answer. I don't know everything. I don't think we all know everything, but we try our best. You know you just tell them what it is all about, why do we do this. I don't know. What do you think? Q: You also get together with other... ABDULLAH: Yeah we do. BERIVAN: There are other Moslem people here right. ABDULLAH: We like for the Moslem holidays and things like that, occasions we get together, we pray together, we eat together. And that's something good now because for years we didn't have too any -- just us and another family here. BERIVAN: Just the two of us. ABDULLAH: But now we have too many other families, Moslem families, so we can do a lot of things together. I wish we had those families here when the kids were small, probably they could have learned a lot more at that time too, to be you know involved with that directly. But again you know as far as a part of the culture, I don't think that we can lose it. The thing is we're here because we believed in something so strongly that we sacrificed our lives and families for, and I don't think we forget it. I mean doesn't matter till we live we still struggle for our country to do something, to be something, and so that's something we never forget. I mean Kurdish, being a Kurd, we were very proud of that. I mean a lot of times say well you know I had a good life there, I had a family, I had this, and I left everything behind probably. Why did I do that? No. I am so proud that I think, and the thing I have said many times that we're still, we're lucky that we're still live. A lot of our friends weren't that lucky you know. They lost their lives fighting for what we believed was right. So yes, we're not going to forget that I think. I mean, I mean I'm the same person who came here 25, 25 years ago. I'm still the same person. I adopted a new society, but I won't forget my past or I won't forget my tradition or I won't forget the things I believed in, but of course you have to adopt a new society too you know. And would not that hard-core thing that we do that to things that fast. No, we do. BERIVAN: We're very open-minded about... ABDULLAH: And so we're open-minded and... BERIVAN: Other religions, other cultures. ABDULLAH: I mean people. We have a lot of people, and it's not an issue between us and them you know. I mean we're friends. That's all it is. You have your religion, I have my religion. It's not an issue at all. So they respect my religion, I respect their religion you know. I mean we're the people here, I mean being part of this society, we just do what other people do. I mean as far as Christmas goes, our kids always had a tree when they... because I never wanted them to feel different than the other people, the other kids. They always had presents just like any other kids. A lot of times they had even more because when they don't grandpas, grandma's, aunts and uncles, and you know having... we had to buy all that for them making more and more under their tree so they know you know just like their friends. Kids are kids you know. They just don't understand these kind of things. That's what we did, and we are still doing the same thing. And being part of the society, I think you have to... I think it comes to us I guess you have to do it. You know I've said it many times that you have to make the first step. If you wait in your corner, I think you'll be staying there for a long time waiting for somebody else to make the move. It might not happen, but you have to make the move. BERIVAN: That's right. ABDULLAH: You know when we moved to Mandan, we were just... we were here for about three years and moved to Mandan after we bought a little house there. Neighbors were therefore a long time, probably they know each other from across the street saying hi to each other, but after we got there, we got together for Christmas, we got together... we had a good fisherman there. He would catch the fish, and I would bake it you know so we have potlucks, and we did all these things. And we're still part of that neighborhood. We've been here but we still... we're still part of that neighborhood. We came here the same way. Neighbor across the street here you know he came and helped me with painting the house you know inside because at that time I had some health problems. And so somebody, I just moved to the neighborhood, he comes and paints the walls, the ceilings are too high for me you know, he would come. BERIVAN: And that tells you that there are hearts bigger than mountains. ABDULLAH: Of course that's what I mean by when I say that. And then I have neighbor on the other side you know, trees need to be trimmed or cut down, they will come and do that for me. I mean I don't pay them, they... you know. I mean that's the way it is. That's how I grew up. I see the same thing here too. If they need help, I'll do the same thing for them too. But this is really... I mean it's amazing. But as I said, you have to make the step too you know. Twice down at my corner I'll be standing there for long, long time. Q: You do keep contact with other Kurds though right? ABDULLAH: Oh sure. BERIVAN: Definitely. Q: Tell me about that you go to Fargo and celebrate? ABDULLAH: We go to Fargo a lot. I mean we visit, and with our culture you know we go visit, and we don't stay in hotels because if you do, boy we be in big trouble. We don't care do that you know. They don't dare to do the same thing if they come here, go to the hotel you know. It doesn't matter how much room you have, you have to all share that you know stay together. And the problem that we have you know, when you go to Fargo or any other place where there are a lot of Kurds, you have to gain about 10 pounds by the time you get back because everybody is one for breakfast, one for lunch, one for supper, and that goes on and on you know. If you don't go to somebody's house and they get upset you know so you have to satisfy everybody. That's... no, we keep in contact, and actually March 31st is our New Year, is Kurdish New Year. It's called New Roz and we usually celebrate that you know by having dances and music and all that, and not having enough people in Bismarck we usually... sometimes we do it. With the international club, if you did it a few times, we called it Kurdish nights. We did that in the past, but we usually go to Fargo or some other bigger cities, but for us Fargo is the closest that we can go and share that with our friends, and they will have one next month too. Q: What sort of Kurdish traditions do you like to keep alive? You know we absolutely do this or we make this or we... BERIVAN: The language you know. I stress, Abdullah and I really, to the kids you have got to speak your language. The reason is because there were so many Germans that came here, the children or the great grandchildren, do not know how to speak their language, and that's what I see you know. Keep your language. Keep your tradition. What mom taught me, I'm teaching you. Keep it going. Don't lose it. ABDULLAH: Respect the elder (BERIVAN: Right.) you know. That's really very, very important in our society. You have to respect... somebody older than you, you have to respect that person. I mean you respect everybody, but as far as in our tradition, we don't call anybody by their first name you know. I mean I talk to somebody my age, even younger than me, I never call that person by his first name. You know brother so and so, that's the way we're used to, Aunt so and. That's the way we... old traditions like that. So that's what we teach our kids to have that respect, and other things... and other things that we believe in, a lot of different things that we believe in. Of course you could modify it too, but we tell them a lot of different things that we grew up with, and hopefully they will keep it. It's kind of hard though. I mean it's not that easy you know growing up with this society, but we're lucky. I think our kids are kind of keeping that tradition up. Q: Did your kids... you know you said you worked hard to have them not feel different. Did they feel different sometimes? BERIVAN: Not at all. Not at all. You know I've talked to Cameron and Tara too. I think... another person came in here. 0h Karen Herzog came and interviewed us also for the faith around the world, and Cameron was here. She asked him that question, and he said not really you know. I was among friends that the way they were I was you know. I am no different than they are. And it's true. He's no different than any other child around here. Q: Did you two face any sort of discrimination? BERIVAN: Not at all. ABDULLAH: Not really (together). ABDULLAH: I mean... a lot of people talk about it, but I can say that honestly that I have never. BERIVAN: Not at all. ABDULLAH: I have never faced anything like that. I missed nothing in front of me. I mean we have never seen that. BERIVAN: Right. ABDULLAH: And I can say that. BERIVAN: Not at all. I mean we... people have been very, very thoughtful about where we come from. Sure there are so many questions, and they feel guilty asking. Please don't feel guilty. Ask, that's how you learn. If you don't ask, you're just going to sit there and look at each other. Well we're not going to know anything about each other. Q: Why did you become involved in the international club? BERIVAN: Oh, learning about each other's culture. That is so important. It's so fun, and it's good for the kids. One night... no, it was around, something we did for Lutheran Social Services that was for... what was it? That be a C that we did. ABDULLAH: Oh, that was for Refugee Awareness Week I think _____________ like that. BERIVAN: We had people from all over the world you know like Kurdistan, India, Spanish people. We had the Ukrainian come from Dickinson and do a dance. The Russians, the Armenian, the oh Malaysia, Indonesia, from all over. I can name countries one after another -- India, Native Americans. We all did a very, very nice night that night. That be a C. And then afterwards some of us got together just for coffee. We were sitting and talking and then ________________ said why don't we get together once a month, and then word-of-mouth we can tell each other, and we can start something like what do you call it international club. And we thought that is a great idea, why not. We'll do a potluck once a month, and we'll just go wherever there is opening in a church basement. We can do that. Well, McCade Methodist Church, bless their heart, they opened their you know church for us, and we meet downstairs in the fellowship hall. We meet once a month to do, just to get to know each other. We've done fund-raiser. We've done... which is always in April or beginning of May. We just do that and learn about each other's culture and religion. ABDULLAH: You know, the club stresses that... really people and cultures together. That's what our mission is. And then we're doing that right now. I mean we have people from, basically from different countries and from different cultures, and we have a lot of people from Bismarck. I mean most of the people that we have members are from Bismarck here too so, but that's what the thing is bringing people and cultures together, and we're doing that. It's very important to have in this because I think North Dakota we're not really exposed too much to the outside. It's changing right now, but I mean it wasn't like that so that __________ can do a lot to make people aware of other cultures, that there are other people. And you know I think I mentioned that before that I read in the paper that Kurdish language is the second spoken language in Fargo, North Dakota. I mean how do you... it's hard to believe, but that's the way it is you know. So things are changing. I mean it's not... I mean you get different cultures, different people from different backgrounds come to the state now, and that's good for the state and for the country also. Why you ask is America so great? Because they have people and minds from all different countries in the world you know, so that's why we're so great. I mean you have everybody's mind in there. So that's... Q: A big melting pot. ABDULLAH: Exactly. BERIVAN: That's right. And how beautiful it is to set and you know you're speaking the same language. You know we all speak the English language here now, but yet when I turn to my husband, I'll speak to him in Kurdish; when the other person turns to her husband will speak in their language, and it's like wow look at us. We can always speak the English language, but yet we always carry on a different language with each other. Q: Do you speak to each other in Kurdish? BERIVAN: Definitely. Q: All the time? BERIVAN: All the time. BERIVAN: Not, well sometimes we put English in there. ABDULLAH: Well yeah we do but. BERIVAN: We kind of tease each other you know, and we put the English language in. And then when the kids come, we speak to them in Kurdish, and they return in English, especially Tara our daughter you know, she's shy. ABDULLAH: Tara is shy. BERIVAN: Cameron speaks it. ABDULLAH: They think they make mistakes and things like that. BERIVAN: And now that Cameron is married, and his wife is American, he's teaching her through the Internet to learn how to say a few words in Kurdish, but when she comes here, okay Sarah, you have to tell Mom and Dad what you learned. No, no she says. She's too shy. She won't say it. Q: Is it a difficult language? BERIVAN: Yes it is. It really is. You know I was teaching our friend Karen and Duane's daughter, Emily. I was teaching her how to say the numbers. And she looked at me and she repeated it right after me. And I wish I could keep up with her because I really would like her to learn another one. I know she can speak, she can say a few things in French too because her mom teaches her that. But see the Kurdish language we have three different dialects. I speak different dialect than Abdullah does. Abdullah speaks different dialect than a friend of ours that lives here in Bismarck. Q: Big differences between them? BERIVAN: Not really but yet yes you would know when they speak it. Big difference mine and theirs. Q: Are they different tribes? You had mentioned tribes. ABDULLAH: Well they are different tribes. Well tribes you know of course... Q: What's the definition of a tribe? ABDULLAH: Well it used to be, not anymore really. I mean they have tribes... it's kind of changing right now though I mean, but these hostile tribes, a group of people. One person is leader of that group you know, and then the other tradition that the tribes they had all the people... they're talking about nomads you know. Kurds were nomads in like in the mountains, and that tradition that we had, it was a beautiful, beautiful tradition which I don't think we have it anymore... well I think they still do. What happens a lot of times in the summertime the people usually own a lot of sheep and cattle and goats and all that. And they live in the mountains where the grass is green, and the water is cold and a lot of snow. I mean it's kind of nice so they take all their animals over to the area in the summertime, I mean in the wintertime they go to the southern part away from the mountains because then they rent a piece of land there for the cattle. So they live in tents, and that's what their life is they sell butter and things like that and meat or wool or things like that so what they traditionally had in the mountains was a problem at this time of the year, this time because some of the mountains we have only one road, you know the side of the mountain, enough for two cars, and also you have thousands of sheep and all that. And the tradition was they dressed the most beautiful girl they have in the family with the most beautiful dresses and all that, and she would ride the best horse they have. So she would lead the whole group in front of everybody. The men walk. The women sometimes walk, carry something, or some of them will ride the horses and stuff and they go. And all of a sudden traffic is stopped for hours till all the sheep move from the area till there is enough spot for the cars to go through. And that's a tradition we had, and I don't know if they still have that or not. So things are changing after the war and all that and what happened between the Kurds and the Iraqi government. BERIVAN: And we both left the country since 1974 so we really don't know what's happening there, what's going on. Q: And you never been back. BERIVAN: We've never been back. Q: It makes you sad? BERIVAN: It's really hard. You know it does. We left family -- cousins, uncles, nephews and nieces that we have never seen, and you know they're grown-up now. They have their own families. We don't even know them. ABDULLAH: I don't know I mentioned the other day when we were talking on the phone. After you know the end of the Kurdish revolution, we ended up Iran, and then all of a sudden my mother was late '50s or so, and she had a problem with rheumatism and all that. And then one day I was... my nephew was looking for me, and he found me. He said Grandma is here. How could she be there? So I went to my brother's house. Here she was. They didn't know where they were going, with another old lady, came all the way across the mountains in March, across the mountains went to Iran somehow, and they ended up in a small town, and then they asked for us, and luckily that my brother was living in that town. So they took her there, and I went there, and she said well I'm here to take you home. I said well you know, you're my mother. If you want me to come home with you, I'm ready to come home with you, but do you know would you accept it if they jailed me or killed me, whatever, you know what's going to happen. She said yeah I know. Well I said well you stay with me you know here... how about the house, how about this. I said this is not important. You know you're here, you stay with me. She said no. I said well you know (coughing--unintelligible) might see me next year, might see me five years from now, 20 years or never you know; it turned out to be never because she passed away about 10 years ago... BERIVAN: 1980. ABDULLAH: Was that 80s... somewhere, she passed away a long time ago so it happened to be never. So, so it's kind of hard you know, and a lot of times I say even death is easier when you're with a family you know, but when something like that happens and you can't go back, that's the hardest part of it you know. But that's the way it is when you sacrifice something you know you pay for it, and as I said we're proud of it too. Whatever we did we are proud of it. Q: But you can't expect to not pay for it I guess. ABDULLAH: Exactly. BERIVAN: That's right.
|
|
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
